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Yugo

New Member
May 11, 2011
9
0
#41
Thank you all for the very useful information posted here....


In fact, especially PreferredUser because you are making me rethink if this is something that I really want to get into.


The more that I dwell into this subject, the more that I am realizing just how much knowledge and expertise is required.


I have a Bachelor of Science in Mathematics, a bit of programming knowledge, and have worked in an unrelated field ever since.
I am currently considering taking a two year Computer Crime program at an excellent educational institution ( bcit.ca ) with the aim of doing digital forensics for the local policing agency here.



Does the expected level of expertise differ in your guys' experience from someone that is working for the municipal police in recovering digital evidence, to someone that is trying to combat high tech crime?


I don't mind rolling up my sleeves and learning as much as I can, however the task of catching up to some of the professionals in this field that have been doing this for years (can I even say decades? :) ) seems truly daunting.
 
Dec 31, 2006
3,405
0
#42
Yugo said:
In fact, especially PreferredUser because you are making me rethink if this is something that I really want to get into.
I really believe that there are a lot of people that have good technical skills to go into CF that either do not have the mindset or aptitude to not just do the work but to like doing the job and be appreciated for the job they do.

An aptitude to do a job is not just having the technical ability to do the job. Think of a doctor. There are a lot of them that go through school, pass their boards and go into practice. But how many of them are good. Yes there are many that have great technical skills, but they cannot relate to patients, they cannot reassure a patient going into surgery, they cannot comfort a family. Are they good technically? They may be great, but there is more to being a good doctor than being technically proficient.

Let's say an examiner is great at finding deleted files, but cannot get in front of a jury without locking up from stage fright. Technically they are great, but they lack an aptitude for delivering the message.

One other thing I believe that people looking to get into the field do not always consider is what if you hate the work? What if you do not have the aptitude? What is your fall back plan? What are you going to do with an incredibly specialized degree if you hate the work?

I just think there are a lot of things to consider in this or any career.
 

newbie99

New Member
Dec 10, 2011
6
0
#43
Hello everyone, Im REALLY new to the computer world. I have all of the basic computer knowledge and some would say abit more. I start Devry in AZ next month for BS-Information Technology with an emphasis in CF. Now Ive been in law enforcement for over 15 years as a cop and love the job, but looking into what I want to do when I retire. Now Preferred User you sound like a person who is in this industry and made statements that one can have the technical experience or skills but can they apply them. Im wondering the opposite. Ive done many investigations and have put many criminals behind bars for several years. I know myself and i can literally spend hours on a computer messing around and figuring something out. Ive just never taken any professional class on computers before. Any advice from you (Preferred User) and anyone else before I take the plung back to school for the next two years. (Already have my AA). Thanks again for any responses and dont worry about offending me, Ive got thick skin!! (You have to if you wanna be a cop)!
 
Dec 31, 2006
3,405
0
#44
newbie99 you have a bit of advantage being in LE that you can get training at a lower cost (or even free) to see if CF interests you. Does your Department/Agency have a CF Unit? That would certainly be a starting point, especially with 15 years in you should be able to bid on an opening pretty successfully.

I would look into NW3C. Maybe take the 1-day STOP course or the 4-day BDRA course.

In regards to Devry I have never gone there, however there are many comments here and on other forums that I would encourage you to read. Some people liked it others not so much and there are many comments from prospective employers. Personally I think it is no more expensive than other private schools, my concern would be how a degree from there is viewed by prospective employers.

The biggest challenge I have seen for former LE is working for "the other side". When you have friends that are still in LE and an examiner suddenly becomes the opponent it is not always pretty. Of course you could go the corporate route and never really have to deal with that issue.

Also setting up a shop is not an inexpensive endeavor if you are thinking of going that route. I would recommend pricing out some equipment so the sticker shock wears off by the time you are ready.

Finally, and this is the "thick skin" part, there has been a long on-going argument: is it easier to make a cop a CF examiner or to take a IT person and make them an investigator. The answer is neither is easier. I have worked with a lot of sworn LE that could not get being a CF examiner no matter how much training they were sent to, likewise I have worked with a lot of brilliant IT people that could not follow a lead if it was laid out in a line for them to follow and many more that were creeped out or just could not stomach the work.

FWIW You may also encounter a bit of reverse discrimination if you go corporate where employers do not think you can do the work because you have a "cop mindset".

I hope I answered your questions.
 

newbie99

New Member
Dec 10, 2011
6
0
#45
Thank you for the response Preferred User. As I stated before I am really new so what is NW3C and the 1-day STOP course or the 4-day BDRA course?

Yes we do have CF Unit in our department but things are done differently in the LE world on the west side of america as to the midwest. Its not as easy as one would think to get into that unit (especially with my time on). But Im not planning on retiring for another 11 years so I have some time left to get into the unit and gain some experience.

I was hoping that with a BA in CF from Devry and then get a few years experience and some more training from my department when I do retire, I would have hopefully made a few friends and contacts in the industry where I could get a job for either the LE side as a civilian or the corporate world. I have read mulitple mixed reviews about Devry and the majority of the complaints (Besides the cost) have seen to be that there is not enough law and legal into the course curriculum. They all say that the courses are challenging and have more emphasis in IT. I think that actually would suit me better since Ive got plenty of years and experience in the hot seat in court. (Now I know as CF its a bit different due to the way your testifying to scientific analysis, theory and lab procedures. etc) But being IN the hot seat is just what it is and theres no better experience then real life court. You can mock it up all you want but untill you have some million dollar attorney ask you questions that are so far fetched you wonder where he went to school to think of that BS, its not the same.

Now as far as learning more is there any good books or websites I can read that would help me prepare for 1. Devry and 2. a career in CF?

Thanks again for any responses.
 
Dec 31, 2006
3,405
0
#46
NW3C is the National White Collar Crime Center (nw3c dot org). They have quite a few classes. The two I mentioned are the starting point.

Being in the box is a bit different as an examiner than as a patrol officer or even a detective, however your experience in seeing the shenanigans that go on in court will serve you well.

As far as books, File System Forensic Analysis by Brian Carrier is a text book for almost every starting forensic class I have run across and a reference for the rest of us. For Windows, I would recommend the books by Harlan Carvey.

Just looking at my bookshelf I have 33+ books on CF not including all the books/manuals from various training courses. Some are very specific like CD & DVD Forensics others very general. But a lot of examiners I work with only have a few books so YMMV.
 

seancoombs

New Member
Aug 4, 2012
3
0
#47
Free Forensics Courses for Beginners

<t>Hi, <br/>
<br/>
I am new and highly interested in computer forensics. I currently have no knowledge of this discipline and as an introduction I would like to know if there are any open source or free training to get me started in this field.<br/>
<br/>
Regards<br/>
Sean</t>
 

cybercop

Administrator
Oct 31, 2005
1,660
0
#48
I actually hate replying like this, but the best answer is to direct you to www dot google dot com. If you are not able to use google to locate basic information like this, you will have a very tough time in this field.
 
Sep 9, 2011
6
0
#49
You might also want to check out these links to free or low-cost courses:

http :// apex.vtc . com/computer-forensics.php

http :// community.spiceworks . com/topic/83627-can-anyone-recommended-any-good-or-free-computer-forensics-security-training

http :// www . teexwmdcampus . com/index.k2

As for books, besides Windows Forensic Analysis, I also recommend Guide to Computer Forensics & Investigations by Bill Nelson. as well as The Basics of Digital Forensics: The Primer for Getting Started in Digital Forensics by John Sammons.

Those are good starting points. Have at it and have fun. Thanks.

Moderator Note: Direct links are not allowed.
 

Jamshaid

New Member
May 7, 2015
7
0
#51
Thanks for such a valuable info out of four links only

1. CERT First Responder Guide to Computer Forensics available at sei.cmu.edu/publications/documents/05.reports/05hb001.html

2. CERT First Responder Guide to Computer Forensics - Advanced available at cert.org/archive/pdf/05hb003.pdf

3. Investigations involving the Internet by NIJ available at ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/nij/210798.pdf

4. National High Tech Crime Unit (UK) computer forensic guide available at devon-cornwall.police.uk/v3/pdfstore/ElecEvid.pdf

1 and 3 are available, any other use full links DOD?
 
Jan 26, 2017
4
0
#52
UK based and seeking help

<t>Hello<br/>
<br/>
I am based in the UK. I would like to get back into IT and study Digital Forensics. Please could someone advise me which courses to take after I have been out of the Industry for 9 years. I would ideally like to get some experience but it is nigh on impossible without a post graduate degree, which I do not have. I am 43 so going back to University isn't an option but I could do an Open University Degree whilst working. Please could someone help me to channel the time and money into the correct courses so I can then perhaps find a job at a Trainee entry and work on skills and education throughout employment or I am deluding myself?!<br/>
Thank you</t>
 
Dec 31, 2006
3,405
0
#53
Re: UK based and seeking help

<r><QUOTE author="Noodles2006"><s>
Noodles2006 said:
</s>Hello<br/>
<br/>
I am based in the UK. I would like to get back into IT and study Digital Forensics. Please could someone advise me which courses to take after I have been out of the Industry for 9 years. I would ideally like to get some experience but it is nigh on impossible without a post graduate degree, which I do not have. I am 43 so going back to University isn't an option but I could do an Open University Degree whilst working. Please could someone help me to channel the time and money into the correct courses so I can then perhaps find a job at a Trainee entry and work on skills and education throughout employment or I am deluding myself?!<br/>
Thank you<e>
</e></QUOTE>I am confused. You want to know what courses to take, however "going back to University isn't an option". Yet you posted "like to get some experience but it is nigh on impossible without a post graduate degree".<br/>
<br/>
If you need a post graduate degree for the job you want, go back to University. There are plenty of people older than you at University.</r>
 

azuleonyx

Member
Experienced Member
Oct 20, 2018
55
Ratings
46
18
Charlotte, North Carolina Area
cyberfenixtech.blogspot.com
Twitter
https://twitter.com/AzuleOnyx
#54
I think the biggest challenge in starting this field is the many classes/videos/references fall into two groups: 1) commercial/free(ish) software (point-and-click forensics) or 2) very specialized topics.

SANS courses seem to be nice by too costly unless you get lucky and it's hard to say which types of things the colleges use without finding someone who went. I have half a Master's from UMUC for Digital Forensics and they mainly used EnCase with very simple labs. I am frustrated because there was not enough either Open Source tools or real life sim cases to really challenge me. I found the classes on the harder side due to the amount of information they seemed to want without any instructions or extra guidance.

Personally, I'll am going towards the CCE and CFR (Cyber First Responder) due to cost because both can be completed with self-study. I know the SANS can as well but they are highly detailed certs and I really want to really sit in a class.
 

danjames

New Member
Apr 22, 2015
2
1
#55
Now Digital forensics is smarter to catch the frauds. There are lots of forensics agency requires job vacancies and trained to make stronger. Institute of Computer Forensics and Criminal Investigations is one of them to provides Forensics Service of full potential and create a new technique to solve the issue quickly.
 

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